Showing posts with label creationism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label creationism. Show all posts

Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Quantum Contemplations- The Atheist vs. Theist Challenge

The challenge: here is a place for Theists, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics or whatever to discuss their differences and the meaning or non-meaning of it all. The floor is open, but note this:

I welcome passionate discussion and debate in the comments sections of Geotheology. But, if you have a beef with a viewpoint expressed on this site, I ask that you stay focused on the issues at hand: no personal invective, no demonizing or pseudo-psychoanalyzing of those with whom you disagree, etc. This is a site for geo- theological, geo- political discussion and hence mutual learning and/or dialog- it is not a barroom or a playground.

Thursday, May 01, 2008

On Secular Fundamentalism- Chris Hedges

Chris Hedges, who went to seminary at Harvard Divinity School, is the author of “I Don’t Believe in Atheists.” This essay is adapted from the book, which was inspired in part by Hedges’ debate with Sam Harris.


The battle under way in America is not a battle between religion and science. It is a battle between religious and secular fundamentalists. It is a battle between two groups intoxicated with the utopian and magical belief that humankind can perfect itself and master its destiny.
We live in an age of faith. We are assured we are advancing as a species toward a world that will be made perfect by reason, technology, science or the second coming of Jesus Christ. Evil can be eradicated. War has been declared on nebulous forces or cultures that stand as impediments to progress. Religion, if you are secular, is blamed for genocide, injustice, persecution, backwardness and intellectual and sexual repression. Secular humanism, if you are born again, is branded as a tool of Satan.

The folly of humankind, however, is pervasive. It infects all human endeavors. It has not exempted itself from institutional religion or the cult of science and reason. The greatest danger that besets us does not come from believers or atheists. It comes from those who, under the guise of religion, science or reason, imagine that we can free ourselves from the limitations of human nature and perfect the human species.

Those who insist we are morally advancing as a species are deluding themselves. There is nothing in science or human history or human nature to support this idea. Human individuals can make moral advances, as can human societies, but they also make moral reverses. Our personal and collective histories are not linear. We alternate between periods of light and periods of darkness. We can move forward materially, but we do not move forward morally. The belief in collective moral advancement ignores the endemic flaws in human nature as well as the tragic reality of human history. This belief in inevitable moral progress, whether it comes in secular or religious form, is magical thinking. The secular version of this myth peddles fables no less fantastic, and no less delusional, than those preached from many church pulpits.

The word utopia was coined by Thomas More in 1516 from the Greek words for no and place. To be a utopian, to live for the creation of a fantastic and unreal world, was to live in no place, to remove oneself from reality. It is only by building an ethic based on reality, one that takes into account the dangers and limits of human nature and human power, that we can begin to adjust our behavior to cope with social and political problems. All utopian schemes of impossible advances and glorious conclusions end in moral squalor, criminality and fanaticism.

The current “war on terror” by the United States is a utopian vision. It is being fought so that evil can be violently uprooted. Its proponents promise a world that will become “reasonable,” a “civil” world ruled by the “rational” forces of global capitalism. Those who support the “war on terror” speak as if victory in any tangible sense is possible. This noble vision of a world in harmony is used to turn us into criminals, beasts who carry out needless murder and torture in Iraq and our offshore penal colonies in the name of human progress.

The desire for emancipation, universal happiness and prosperity has a seductive pull on the human imagination. It preoccupied the early church, which was infused with exclusivist, utopian sects. We are comforted by the thought that we progress morally as a species. We want things to get better. We want to believe we are moving forward. This hope is more reassuring than reality. But all the signs in our present world point to a coming anarchy, a massive dislocation of populations that will result from ecological devastation and climate change, multiple pollutions, the weight of overpopulation and wars fought over dwindling natural resources. Science, which should be used to address these looming disasters, has largely become a tool of corporations that seek not to protect us but make a profit and stimulate the economy. New technologies that are potentially threatening, such as genetically modified organisms and nanotechnologies, are being unleashed with no understanding of the impact on the biosphere. The global population is expected to jump from about 2 billion in 1930 to 8 or 9 billion in the mid-21st century, and this means that if growth is left unchecked we will no longer be able to sustain ourselves, especially as nations such as China seek the consumption levels of the industrialized nations in Europe and North America. Nearly two-thirds of the life-support services provided to us by nature are already in precipitous decline worldwide. The old wars of conquest, expansion and exploitation will be replaced by wars fought for the basic necessities of air, food, sustainable living conditions and water. And as we race toward this catastrophe, scientists continue to make discoveries, set these discoveries upon us and walk away from the impact.

The belief that science and reason will save us makes it possible to ignore or minimize these looming catastrophes. We drift toward disaster with the comforting thought that the god of science will intervene on our behalf. It is dispiriting to live in a world where things are not moving forward and will most probably get worse. We prefer to believe that we are the culmination of a process, the end result of centuries of human advancement, rather than creatures trapped in the irrevocable limitations and blunders of human nature. The idea of inevitable progress gives us comfort in times of turmoil. It allows us to place ourselves at the center of creation, to exalt ourselves above others. It translates our narrow self-interest into a universal good. But it is morally irresponsible. It permits us to avert our eyes from reality and place our hopes in an absurdist faith.

The belief that rational and quantifiable disciplines such as science can be used to perfect human society is no less absurd than a belief in magic, angels and divine intervention. Scientific methods, part of the process of changing the material world, are nearly useless in the nebulous world of politics, ideas, values and ethics. But the belief in the possibility of collective moral progress, in our ability to advance as a species spiritually and ethically, is seductive. It is what has doomed populations in the past that have chased after impossible dreams, and it threatens to doom us again. It is, at its core, the enticement that we can be more than human, that we can become gods.

We have nothing to fear from those who do or do not believe in God. We have much to fear from those who do not believe in sin. The concept of sin is a stark acknowledgement that we can never be omnipotent, that we are bound and limited by human flaws and self-interest. The concept of sin is a check on the utopian dreams of a perfect world. It prevents us from believing in our own perfectibility or the illusion that the human species makes moral advances along with the material advances in science and technology. To turn away from God is harmless. Saints have been trying to do it for centuries. To turn away from sin is catastrophic. Religious fundamentalists, who believe they know and can carry out the will of God, disregard their severe human limitations. They act as if they are free from sin. The secular utopians from Richard Dawkins to Sam Harris to Daniel Dennett to Christopher Hitchens have also forgotten they are human. Both they and religious fundamentalists peddle absolutes. Those who do not see as they see, speak as they speak and act as they act are worthy only of conversion or eradication.

The belief that human nature can be improved and perfected, that we are moving throughout history toward a glorious culmination, is malformed theology. It permits wild, eschatological visions to be built under religious or secular banners. It is this belief that is dangerous. And it colors the thought of the new crop of atheist writers. They will tell us what is right and wrong, not in the eyes of God, but according to the purity of the rational mind. They too seek to destroy those who do not conform to their vision. They too wrap their intolerance in Enlightenment virtues.

“Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them,” Sam Harris writes. “This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world in which we live. Certain beliefs place their adherents beyond the reach of every peaceful means of persuasion, while inspiring them to commit acts of extraordinary violence against others. There is, in fact, no talking to some people. If they cannot be captured, and they often cannot, otherwise tolerant people may be justified in killing them in self-defense. This is what the United States attempted in Afghanistan, and it is what we and other Western powers are bound to attempt, at an even greater cost to ourselves and to innocents abroad, elsewhere in the Muslim world. We will continue to spill blood in what is, at bottom, a war of ideas.”

Any form of knowledge that claims to be absolute ceases to be knowledge. It is a form of faith. Harris and the other atheist authors mistake a tiny subset of criminals and terrorists for 1 billion Muslims. They justify the unjustifiable in the name of civilization. The passions of these atheists, hidden under the jargon of reason and science, are as bankrupt as the passions of Christian and Islamic fundamentalists who sanctify mass slaughter in the name of their utopia. Religious fundamentalists pervert and distort religion to serve their own fears and self-aggrandizement. Atheists do the same with science and reason. These two groups peddle the myth that we can conquer human nature, overcome our imperfections and build the perfect society.

These atheists and Christian radicals have built squalid little belief systems that are in the service of themselves and their own power. They urge us forward into a nonreality-based world, one where force and violence, where self-exaltation and blind nationalism, are an unquestioned good. They seek to make us afraid of what we do not know or understand. They use this fear to justify cruelty and war. They ask us to kneel before little idols that look and act like them, telling us that one day, if we trust enough in God or reason, we will have everything we desire.

We must accept the severe limitations of being human. We must face reality, a reality which in the coming decades is going to be bleak and difficult. Those who are blinded by utopian visions inevitably turn to force to make their impossible dreams and their noble ideals real. They believe that the ends, no matter how barbaric, justify the means. Utopian ideologues, armed with the technology and mechanisms of industrial slaughter, have killed tens of millions of people over the last century. They ask us to inflict suffering and death in the name of virtue and truth. The atheists, in the end, offer us a new version of an old and dangerous faith. It is one we have seen before. It is one we must fight.

Saturday, December 01, 2007

The Power of Myth- Joseph Campbell- The Meaning of Myth #1



The Message of the Myth: Campbell compares creation stories (Genesis, other religions). This is part #1 of a series.

The quest for meaning in life is one that all races of all times have undertaken. It is something that God, the super intelligence that brought the universe into existence, order and harmony, evidently programmed right into the essence of our being. Christians believe that the meaning of life and all existence is revealed in the bible and manifested in Christ alone. However, not all men of all times have been exposed to the Gospel or shall we say the right combination of sound Christian teaching and proper, defensible, truly Christian, moral behaviour.

Paul quoted non-Christian poetry when he preached in Athens. "As also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring. Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising."(Acts 17:28-29).

In 1 Corinthians 9:22 Paul wrote,

"I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

In Athens people were lovers of poetry, art, culture, history and what you would call today "New Age" concepts. When Paul went there to preach he embraced their culture of new age idea's and poetry, and used it to glorify and direct people to Christ. Instead of condemning people's cultures we as Christians today should also be interfacing with different expressions of human culture, and revealing Jesus Christ to those cultures to edify them instead of just judging and condemning them. We as Christians need to become all things to all men, so we can win them to Christ . We are authorized to do this so long as we remain true to the Biblical message in doing so. My friend DSM is already using this concept in the review of the Sun Tzu material here on this blog.

One thing I wish to show by reviewing these clips is to show that many of the rifts and disconnects between modern Christian culture and other expressions of philosophy and human quest for meaning are not necessary. Many of these rifts actually come from the misinterpretation of Biblical theology and scriptural interpretation through the lens of socio-political ideology rather than what the Bible actually says or means. I have desired to do this, and have in many ways since the founding of this blog.

I have wanted to work through the Joseph Campbell material in the light of Christian theology for years. so here we are...

What sayeth thee?

Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Cosmology/Cosmogony

Who created God?

Who created God? Where did He come from? This is a question that was introduced two posts back in;

A question to atheists: Could the universe just pop into being?


The question was:

"I have seen the question posed on this series of clips on Youtube,

"Ok Then, When did God come into existence? Did he just "pop" into the universe as well, Or just has he, "just always been"? Theists have the same flaw, just one step back. I personally think that there is no God but at this time, humans cannot possibly perceive this depth of thought, we are not yet advanced enough to understand it."

* I capitalized God in this quote where the author did not.

What sayeth thee? how do you handle this question as a believer or non- believer?"

On the Existence of God- William Lane Craig



If you can look at the complexity, beauty, harmony, purpose, intelligence and morality in the universe- as well as that anything whatsoever exists- and eliminate the possibility of God- then you really have to come up with something unbelievable.

Friday, November 02, 2007

But... what about the dinosaurs?


video- Walking In Your Footsteps by The Police

I am a Christian. I am a blogger. I am someone who grapples with life's larger questions on a moment to moment basis. In cruising around the Internet and monitoring the ongoing debate between Christians of differing theological interpretations and Christians and scientists and/or Christians and atheists there is one persistent question that just keeps popping up. How old is the earth? some Christian literalists seem to believe that if they don't do the math just a certain way and give in to the notion that the earth is only about 4-6 thousand years old that they are somehow being heretical... disrespecting God and rejecting his Holy Word, the Bible.

Well, I tell you right now that I am a Christian who believes the Bible and I find the notion that the earth is less than ten thousand years old... well... not very believable. To be fair, I don't necessarily believe that the earth as we know it is hundreds of millions of years old either.

As for the Christian "literalists", the literalism seems to be one of convenience... after all the Bible also says to love your enemies and those whom may not agree with you. I know very few Christians who pay much attention to that passage- let alone do intellectual gymnastics to realize and/or internalize it in their everyday lives. "Conservative" and liberal Christians do not even speak civilly to one another for the most part let alone to unbelievers and the lost. I digress.

I don't think that the account of origins as it is given in Genesis is meant to be an encyclopedia like telling of exactly what, when and how things began. Neither is it a totally figurative allegory. The plain fact of the matter is that it only tells us about God as Creator and the original purposes and intentions for mankind. It also tells about the entry of evil into the world and sets the stage for the battle of evermore between the Spirit of Truth and the Father of Lies.
You can take those items to the bank. As far as the exact chronology or timeline... who knows?
Anyone that claims they do know is mightily conceited. The bible does NOT give us that information.

Science gives us a spotty, incomplete and often biased opinion on these matters as well. The academic system works a lot like the media, organized religion or any other institution... anomalous evidence and/or dissenting opinion is squelched as much as possible in the interests of the corporate survival of the institution. Objectivity and truth often take a back seat to the god of money and agenda.

Let me just say this by way of offering my own thoughts on how old the earth might be. I have been to a place where on a raggedy, rocky knoll in Utah, near the Dinosaur National Monument there is a giant fossilized squid. My rational mind tells me that this as well as the rest of the fossil record and all the fossil fuels under the ground did not form in 6,000 years or less. In fact, I find such an idea absurd. I could be wrong of course. Yet, I find this idea almost as absurd as the idea that all the harmony, complexity, order, life and intelligence in the cosmos just happened by sheer mathematical chance and accident... but not quite. If one then insists that life and such came from God- this of course leads to the question of where God came from if there be such a thing. Once again, no man can really answer questions like that. I suppose theorizing on it is a worthy enough enterprise.

But, a lot of people... indigenous people Like Native Americans and/or Christians un-indoctrinated or unaffected by the western mindset and the desire to categorize, master and explain everything surrender questions and desires concerning exactly when, where and why. Instead they worry themselves with another question... perhaps the only one that really matters after all...HOW or WHAT is the right way to live... or what is one's proper relationship to all things? I stand with those who grapple mostly with that question. Now, as a Christian let me say this... those answers can be found in Christ and I believe nowhere else. That is the only reason I am still a Christian. Believe me I know what a monumental task it is to try and convince someone of this if they do not first accept the Bible as a reliable source of information. The truth is no person can ever talk somebody into something they do not want to be true. Real understanding of these matters comes by spiritual means... in fact they are considered as a gift.
Again... if one does not allow for spiritual reality, then there is no sense trying to speak spiritual language to one who does not or will not hear it.

Well... I started writing this with but one question to pose and then got into the stream of consciousness. Anyway.... how old do you think the earth is? Maybe the better question is... does it really matter to how you will live your life?